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# ask-marvin
a
@Marvin Hello, I'm working on an automation, which is a compound trigger containing a reactive and a proactive trigger, that should only trigger under the following conditions: • Reactive Trigger: When an 
xos.edo.event.received
event is observed within the last 21600 seconds (6 hours) and its 
eventSourceURN
is set to 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test
. • Proactive Trigger: At the same time, there should be no 
xos.edo.event.received
event observed within the last 1800 seconds (30 minutes) where the 
eventSourceURN
is 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency
. The idea is that the automation (which, in our case, runs a deployment) should only be triggered when both conditions are met at the moment the reactive trigger is evaluated. Below is the JSON configuration for the automation:
Copy code
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 0
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
Could you please confirm if this JSON configuration correctly implements the intended behaviour, or if any adjustments are necessary?
m
To verify if your JSON configuration correctly implements the intended behavior, let's break down the conditions and compare them with your configuration: 1. Reactive Trigger Condition: - Event: 
xos.edo.event.received
- Event Source URN: 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test
- Time Window: Last 21600 seconds (6 hours) In your JSON: - You have a compound trigger with a single event trigger inside it. - The event type and source URN match your requirement. - The outer compound trigger has a 
within
parameter set to 
21600
, which aligns with your 6-hour window. 2. Proactive Trigger Condition: - Event: No 
xos.edo.event.received
- Event Source URN: 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency
- Time Window: Last 1800 seconds (30 minutes) In your JSON: - You have an event trigger for the proactive condition. - The event type and source URN match your requirement. - The 
within
parameter is set to 
600
, which is incorrect. It should be 
1800
to match the 30-minute condition. 3. Overall Compound Trigger: - Both conditions should be evaluated together, and the automation should trigger only when both are satisfied. In your JSON: - The outer compound trigger has 
require
set to 
"all"
, which means both conditions need to be met simultaneously. ### Adjustment Needed: - Update the 
within
parameter for the proactive trigger to 
1800
to correctly reflect the 30-minute condition. Here's the adjusted JSON snippet for the proactive trigger:
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
  },
  "match_related": {},
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "xos.edo.event.received"
  ],
  "for_each": [],
  "posture": "Proactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 1800
}
With this change, your JSON configuration should correctly implement the intended behavior.
a
@Marvin We noticed that sometimes even after the correct 
xos.edo.event.received
has arrived in the Prefect event feed (the one expected by the Reactive trigger), the automation is not triggered until minutes later. What could cause this? I took a look at a recent 
automation.triggered
event, and that only showed up 4-5 minutes after the reactive trigger event arrived. Below is the raw content of the 
automation.triggered
event - I noticed that fields like 
triggering_event
are null - what's the reason for this?
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{
  "id": "2000a7df-044d-4aed-be04-b486c62ff400",
  "account": "142296e9-5e4e-451f-a177-88be9fe99ed9",
  "event": "prefect-cloud.automation.triggered",
  "occurred": "2025-02-24T21:22:26.859Z",
  "payload": {
    "triggering_labels": {},
    "triggering_event": null
  },
  "received": "2025-02-24T21:22:26.859Z",
  "related": [],
  "resource": {
    "prefect.resource.id": "prefect-cloud.automation.c58d1224-8c02-463c-9336-81bc5dfa7677",
    "prefect.resource.name": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec-edo-test-single-dependency-dependency-automation"
  },
  "workspace": "64079352-165f-4298-b188-008661bea9be"
}
m
From the gathered context, there are a few potential reasons for the delay you are experiencing with the 
automation.triggered
event: 1. Event Processing Delays: Prefect's event processing system may have inherent delays, especially under high load or due to network latency. This can cause a lag between the event occurrence and the trigger firing. 2. Compound Trigger Evaluation: The compound trigger setup may require both child triggers to be evaluated and satisfied before the automation is triggered. This evaluation process might not be instantaneous, especially if there are complex conditions or if the system is busy. 3. Null 
triggering_event
Field: The 
triggering_event
field being null could be due to a misconfiguration or a limitation in the Prefect event system where not all triggering events are captured or logged as expected. It might also be a symptom of an issue in Prefect's event logging or automation system. 4. Reactive and Proactive Trigger Interaction: The interaction between the reactive and proactive triggers might introduce some complexity that causes delays. For instance, if the proactive trigger's evaluation window overlaps with the reactive trigger, it could delay the overall trigger evaluation. Unfortunately, I couldn't find specific GitHub issues related to this problem, which suggests it might not be a widespread issue, or it has not been widely reported yet. ### Recommendations: - Check Prefect's Performance Metrics: Monitor the performance metrics of your Prefect environment to see if there are any bottlenecks or high loads that could be causing delays. - Review Trigger Configuration: Double-check your trigger configuration to ensure that all conditions and time windows are correctly set and do not overlap in unintended ways. - Contact Prefect Support: If the problem persists and significantly impacts your workflows, consider reaching out to Prefect support for more detailed diagnostics and assistance. For more details on custom triggers and potential configuration issues, you can refer to the Prefect documentation on custom triggers.
a
@Marvin if I had set the 
within
time of the outermost compound trigger to 1800 seconds, and kept the inner Proactive trigger's 
within
time to 900 seconds - would that cause issues, based on the logic condition that I am trying to achieve with the overall automation?
m
Setting the 
within
time of the outermost compound trigger to 1800 seconds and the inner Proactive trigger's 
within
time to 900 seconds could indeed lead to issues with your intended logic: 1. Compound Trigger `within`: The outermost compound trigger's 
within
time of 1800 seconds means that the entire set of conditions (both reactive and proactive) must be satisfied within this time window. This is the maximum time allowed for all child triggers to meet their conditions. 2. Proactive Trigger `within`: The Proactive trigger's 
within
time of 900 seconds means that it specifically checks for the absence of the event within this shorter window. ### Potential Issues: - Mismatch in Time Windows: The outer 
within
time of 1800 seconds means that the compound trigger waits for up to 30 minutes for all conditions to be satisfied. However, the Proactive trigger only checks for the absence of its specific event within 15 minutes (900 seconds). This mismatch might cause the compound trigger to behave unexpectedly, as it may wait longer than intended for the Proactive trigger's condition to be evaluated. - Delayed Evaluation: If the Reactive trigger condition is met early within the 1800-second window, but the Proactive trigger condition isn't evaluated until later, you might see delays in the overall automation trigger. To align with your intended logic, ensure that the 
within
times for both triggers are appropriately set so that they complement each other. If the Proactive trigger's condition is critical, its 
within
time should be considered in the context of the overall compound trigger's window to avoid any unintended delays or misfires.
a
@Marvin my automation has been updated as per earlier instructions. Below is the JSON
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{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 0
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
Now, the first time the upstream event (
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test
) was observed, the automation triggered correctly. All subsequent instances of this event are no longer triggering this automation. I have waited beyond the time window set in the Proactive trigger (10 mins), which still makes no difference. I have checked the Prefect event feed to confirm that the upstream event does indeed appear there. What could be the reason why my automation is no longer getting triggered? Is the automation configured incorrectly?
m
Your message was too long by 517 tokens...
Based on the documentation and your provided configuration, here are some potential reasons why your automation might not be triggering after the first event: 1. Event Threshold and Within Window: The reactive trigger is set with a 
threshold
of 1 and a 
within
of 0. This means it expects to react to the event immediately when it occurs. If the event occurs outside the 
within
window or if there's any delay in processing, it might not trigger again. 2. Proactive Trigger Evaluation: The proactive trigger has a 
within
time of 600 seconds (10 minutes), and it checks for the absence of the event. If the event is observed during this window, the proactive trigger won't fire, which could prevent the compound trigger from executing. 3. Stateful Evaluation: Prefect's automation might be stateful in how it evaluates triggers. If the conditions are met once, it might not reset correctly for subsequent evaluations, especially if the event feed doesn't clear or reset between evaluations. 4. Event Feed Consistency: Ensure that the event feed is consistent and that events are not being delayed or dropped. Any inconsistency in the event feed can affect the trigger evaluation. ### Recommendations: - Adjust 
within
for Reactive Trigger: Consider setting a reasonable 
within
value for the reactive trigger to allow some buffer time for event processing delays. - Check Event Feed and Logs: Verify the event feed for any inconsistencies or delays. Also, check logs for any errors or warnings related to trigger evaluations. - Test with Simplified Conditions: Temporarily simplify the conditions to isolate which part of the configuration might be causing the issue. - Review Automation State: Ensure that the automation is not paused or in an incorrect state that might prevent it from re-triggering. For more details on configuring custom triggers, you can refer to the Prefect documentation on custom triggers.
a
@Marvin do I need to set anything in the 
for_each
or 
after
fields for either my Reactive or my Proactive trigger at all? Based on the logic condition I am trying to achieve. e.g. • Reactive Trigger: When an 
xos.edo.event.received
event is observed within the last 21600 seconds (6 hours) and its 
eventSourceURN
is set to 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test
. • Proactive Trigger: At the same time, there should be no 
xos.edo.event.received
event observed within the last 600 seconds (10 minutes) where the 
eventSourceURN
is 
urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency
. The idea is that the automation (which, in our case, runs a deployment) should only be triggered when both conditions are met at the moment the reactive trigger is evaluated.
m
Based on your logic condition, here's how the 
for_each
and 
after
fields could be considered: 1. `for_each`: - This field is used to ensure that triggers are evaluated separately for each unique identifier. If your events are associated with unique identifiers (such as a flow run ID or resource ID), setting 
for_each
can help ensure that the triggers are evaluated independently for each instance of the event. - In your case, if each event is associated with a unique identifier and you want the logic to apply separately to each instance, you might consider setting 
for_each
to that identifier (e.g., 
prefect.resource.id
). 2. `after`: - This field specifies dependencies between triggers, meaning one trigger should occur after another. In your scenario, the logic does not inherently require one trigger to occur after another since both conditions are evaluated simultaneously. - Therefore, you likely do not need to set the 
after
field for your current logic, as it doesn't involve sequential dependencies between the triggers. ### Conclusion: - `for_each`: Consider setting this if your events have unique identifiers and you want the triggers to be evaluated independently for each identifier. Otherwise, it can be left empty. - `after`: This field isn't necessary for your specific logic condition, as there's no sequential dependency between the triggers. If your events don't have unique identifiers or if you want the logic to apply globally rather than per instance, you can leave 
for_each
empty as well.
a
@Marvin I want my reactive trigger to be evaluated for every single 
xos.edo.custom.event
that appears in the Prefect event feed. And when this is evaluated, I want the Proactive trigger to act as a secondary condition to ensure some specific events (containing a specific value for 
eventSourceURN
) has not occurred over another specified time period (the 
within
value for the Proactive trigger). Based on this, do I still not need for_each?
m
Given your requirement to evaluate the reactive trigger for every single 
xos.edo.custom.event
and use the proactive trigger as a secondary condition, using 
for_each
can be beneficial. Here's why: 1. Reactive Trigger Evaluation: - You want the reactive trigger to be evaluated for every occurrence of the event. Using 
for_each
can help ensure that each event is independently considered. If your events have unique identifiers, setting 
for_each
to something like 
prefect.resource.id
or another unique attribute will ensure each event is treated separately. 2. Proactive Trigger as Secondary Condition: - The proactive trigger needs to check the absence of specific events for each instance of the reactive trigger. By using 
for_each
, you ensure that the proactive condition is evaluated in the context of each reactive event. ### Recommendation: - Set `for_each`: Use 
for_each
for both triggers if your events have a unique identifier. This will allow each 
xos.edo.custom.event
to be evaluated independently, and the proactive condition will be checked for each occurrence. Here's an example of how you might configure `for_each`:
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
  },
  "match_related": {},
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "xos.edo.event.received"
  ],
  "for_each": ["prefect.resource.id"],  // or another unique attribute
  "posture": "Reactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 0
}
For the proactive trigger, you can similarly set 
for_each
to ensure it evaluates per instance of the reactive trigger. This setup will help achieve your desired logic by treating each event evaluation independently.
a
@Marvin The automation listens on a custom event. This event is generated per flowrun completion. Example event:
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{
  "id": "87466cf0-2377-4ace-b49e-59b53b1159b4",
  "account": "142296e9-5e4e-451f-a177-88be9fe99ed9",
  "event": "xos.edo.event.received",
  "occurred": "2025-02-25T21:25:35.789Z",
  "payload": {
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test",
    ... some other fields ...
    "metadata": {
    ... some metadata fields ...
    },
    "sourceDetails": {
      "environment": "sandbox",
      "objectName": "main-test",
      "objectType": "job",
      "productId": "xosDeployerE2ETests123",
      "productName": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec"
    }
  },
  "received": "2025-02-25T21:25:35.792Z",
  "related": [
    {
      "prefect.resource.id": "prefect-cloud.webhook.d0660080-e333-4931-8b86-5c5c09973893",
      "prefect.resource.name": "edo-event-webhook",
      "prefect.resource.role": "webhook"
    }
  ],
  "resource": {
    "prefect.resource.id": "xos.edo.event.completion.e5883592-4f62-424f-9a8a-2bf0517ee2a5",
    "prefect.resource.name": "XOS EDO Completion Event",
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
  },
  "workspace": "64079352-165f-4298-b188-008661bea9be"
}
So what should I be using for the for_each in the Reactive. And how to I make the Proactive trigger evaluate per instance of the reactive trigger?
m
Your message was too long by 204 tokens...
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Given your event structure and the requirement to evaluate the reactive trigger for each event independently, you should use a unique identifier from the event for the 
for_each
field. The 
prefect.resource.id
from the 
resource
section seems to be a suitable candidate, as it uniquely identifies the event related to the flow run completion. ### Configuration for `for_each`: 1. Reactive Trigger: - Use 
for_each
with 
prefect.resource.id
to ensure that each event is evaluated independently.
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
  },
  "match_related": {},
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "xos.edo.event.received"
  ],
  "for_each": ["prefect.resource.id"],
  "posture": "Reactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 0
}
2. Proactive Trigger: - Similarly, use 
for_each
with 
prefect.resource.id
to ensure the proactive condition is evaluated in the context of each reactive event.
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
  },
  "match_related": {},
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "xos.edo.event.received"
  ],
  "for_each": ["prefect.resource.id"],
  "posture": "Proactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 600
}
### Explanation: - `for_each`: By using 
prefect.resource.id
, each event is treated as a separate instance, ensuring that the reactive trigger is evaluated for every flow run completion event. - Proactive Trigger Evaluation: With 
for_each
set, the proactive trigger will check for the absence of the specified event within the time window for each instance of the reactive event. This setup should align with your requirement to have each reactive event evaluated independently and ensure the proactive condition is considered for each specific event.
a
@Marvin will setting that for_each work correctly when the inner compound trigger has two Reactive Event triggers? This is a possible scenario e.g. if two events with two different 
eventSourceURN
were observed within a time period (hence the need for the inner compound trigger)
m
When dealing with a compound trigger that contains multiple reactive event triggers, using 
for_each
can still be effective, but you need to ensure that it aligns with the logic you want to achieve. Here's how it can work: 1. Multiple Reactive Triggers with `for_each`: - If you have two reactive event triggers within an inner compound trigger, both should use the same 
for_each
criteria if they are meant to be evaluated independently for each unique event instance. - The 
for_each
field should be set to a unique identifier that applies to all relevant events. If both events have 
prefect.resource.id
as a common unique identifier, then using this for 
for_each
will work. 2. Compound Trigger Logic: - The inner compound trigger can use the 
require
field to specify whether both reactive triggers need to fire (
require: "all"
) or if any one of them suffices (
require: "any"
). - The 
for_each
setting will ensure that each event instance is evaluated independently, and the compound logic will apply to each set of events that share the same 
for_each
identifier. ### Example Configuration for Inner Compound Trigger:
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json
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": ["prefect.resource.id"],
      "posture": "Reactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 0
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:secondary-test"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": ["prefect.resource.id"],
      "posture": "Reactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 0
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",  // or "any" depending on your logic
  "within": 21600
}
### Key Points: - Consistency in `for_each`: Ensure that the same 
for_each
identifier is used across all reactive triggers within the compound trigger to maintain consistency. - Logic with `require`: Use the 
require
field to define whether both events need to occur (
"all"
) or if one is sufficient (
"any"
). - Independent Evaluation: Each event instance will be evaluated independently based on the 
for_each
criteria, allowing your compound trigger logic to apply correctly to each set of events. This approach should allow your automation to work correctly even with multiple reactive events in an inner compound trigger.
a
@Marvin I've set the for_each criteria on both my Reactive and Proactive triggers. The automation does not seem to be triggered at all (I can see no automation.triggered event for it in the event feed either). Below is the current automation:
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{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [
            "prefect.resource.id"
          ],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 0
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [
        "prefect.resource.id"
      ],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
m
To troubleshoot why your automation is not triggering, let's review the configuration and potential issues: 1. 
for_each
Criteria: - Ensure that 
prefect.resource.id
is indeed a unique identifier present in all relevant events. If this ID is missing or inconsistent, the triggers might not evaluate as expected. 2. Time Windows (
within
): - The outer compound trigger has a 
within
of 600 seconds, which means both conditions must be satisfied within this time frame. Ensure that this aligns with your expectations for when events occur. - The proactive trigger's 
within
is set to 600 seconds, which is correct for checking the absence of the event within 10 minutes. 3. Event Feed Consistency: - Verify that the events are consistently appearing in the event feed with the expected 
eventSourceURN
and other attributes. 4. Automation State: - Ensure that the automation is active and not paused. Check the Prefect UI or API for the automation status. 5. Logging and Diagnostics: - Check Prefect logs for any errors or warnings related to trigger evaluation or automation execution. This might provide clues if there's a configuration issue or system error. ### Recommendations: - Verify 
for_each
Field Values: Double-check that 
prefect.resource.id
is present and correct in all events. If necessary, switch to another unique attribute that is consistently available. - Check Event Feed: Ensure that the events are correctly logged in the event feed and match the conditions specified in your triggers. - Simplify for Testing: Temporarily simplify the trigger conditions to isolate which part might be causing the issue. For example, remove 
for_each
or reduce the number of triggers to see if the automation triggers. - Review Automation Status: Confirm that the automation is enabled and active in the Prefect environment. If these steps don't resolve the issue, consider reaching out to Prefect support with detailed logs and configuration for further assistance.
a
@Marvin here are the results of the steps you have recommended: 1. The resource id does exist. Below is an example of one of these events:
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{
  "id": "87466cf0-2377-4ace-b49e-59b53b1159b4",
  "account": "142296e9-5e4e-451f-a177-88be9fe99ed9",
  "event": "xos.edo.event.received",
  "occurred": "2025-02-25T21:25:35.789Z",
  "payload": {
    ... some metadata / payload fields ...
    },
    "sourceDetails": {
      "environment": "sandbox",
      "objectName": "main-test",
      "objectType": "job",
      "productId": "xosDeployerE2ETests123",
      "productName": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec"
    }
  },
  "received": "2025-02-25T21:25:35.792Z",
  "related": [
    {
      "prefect.resource.id": "prefect-cloud.webhook.d0660080-e333-4931-8b86-5c5c09973893",
      "prefect.resource.name": "edo-event-webhook",
      "prefect.resource.role": "webhook"
    }
  ],
  "resource": {
    "prefect.resource.id": "xos.edo.event.completion.e5883592-4f62-424f-9a8a-2bf0517ee2a5",
    "prefect.resource.name": "XOS EDO Completion Event",
    "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
  },
  "workspace": "64079352-165f-4298-b188-008661bea9be"
}
2. The outer within was set to the same as the Proactive within as per your earlier recommendations 3. Events are appearing fine 4. Automation is active 5. Should I be checking the worker logs?
m
Your message was too long by 180 tokens...
Given that you've verified the presence of the 
prefect.resource.id
, the event feed consistency, and the activation status of the automation, checking logs is a logical next step. Here are some additional actions to consider: 1. Worker Logs: - Yes, reviewing the worker logs is a good idea. They might contain information about any issues or errors encountered during the processing of events and triggers. 2. Automation Logs: - If Prefect provides specific logs for automations, review those as well. They might offer insights into why the automation isn't triggering as expected. 3. Simplify and Test: - As a diagnostic step, try simplifying the automation: - Temporarily remove the 
for_each
field to see if it affects the triggering. - Test with only one trigger at a time to isolate any issues. 4. Check for Silent Failures: - Ensure that there are no silent failures or exceptions being swallowed in the automation logic, which might prevent the trigger from firing. 5. Review Event Timing: - Verify that the timing of the events aligns with the 
within
parameters. Ensure there are no timing discrepancies that might prevent the conditions from being satisfied. 6. Prefect Support: - If the issue persists, consider reaching out to Prefect support with detailed logs and your automation configuration for further analysis. By examining these areas, you should be able to gather more information about why the automation isn't triggering as expected.
a
@Marvin I've removed the for_each values altogether. My automation still does not seem to trigger. PReviously it would trigger only once every 30 minutes (not sure why) even though the proactive within was set to 10 mins. However, now the automation is not getting triggered at all, even outside of 30 mins (with or without the for_each set). Automation:
Copy code
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 0
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
m
Given the current configuration and the issues you're facing, let's consider a few aspects that might be affecting the automation: 1. Compound Trigger Configuration: - The outer compound trigger has a 
within
of 600 seconds, meaning both conditions must be satisfied within this time frame. However, the inner compound trigger has a 
within
of 21600 seconds, which might be causing a mismatch in evaluation expectations. 2. Reactive Trigger `within`: - The 
within
for the reactive trigger is set to 0. This might mean it expects an immediate evaluation without delay. Consider setting a reasonable 
within
time to allow for event processing. 3. Proactive Trigger Logic: - The proactive trigger is set to fire if the specified event is absent within 600 seconds. If the event appears within this window, the proactive trigger will not fire, preventing the compound trigger from executing. ### Recommendations: - Adjust 
within
Values: - Set a non-zero 
within
value for the reactive trigger to provide a buffer for event processing delays. - Ensure the 
within
values for the compound and proactive triggers align with your expectations for event timing. - Simplify for Debugging: - Temporarily simplify the automation to isolate the issue: - Test with only the reactive trigger to see if it fires correctly. - Then add the proactive trigger to check if the absence condition is evaluated correctly. - Review Logs: - Check Prefect logs for any errors or warnings related to trigger evaluation or automation execution. - Consider Timing and State: - Ensure that the timing of events aligns with the 
within
parameters and that there are no stateful issues preventing re-triggering. If these adjustments don't resolve the issue, consider reaching out to Prefect support with detailed logs and configuration for further analysis.
a
@Marvin I could set the inner Reactive event trigger to have a within period of 30 seconds, as such:
Copy code
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 30
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
How would this work? I want this whole automation to be evaluated for every 
xos.edo.event.received
event that arrives in the Prefect event feed. If the inner Reactive trigger has a within set to 30 seconds, would this still be valid?
m
Setting the inner Reactive trigger to have a 
within
period of 30 seconds means that the automation will evaluate whether the specified 
xos.edo.event.received
event has occurred within 30 seconds of its expected occurrence. Here's how this setup would work: 1. Inner Reactive Trigger `within`: - The 
within: 30
setting means that the Reactive trigger will look for the 
xos.edo.event.received
event with the specified 
eventSourceURN
within 30 seconds of its occurrence. This allows a small buffer for the event to be processed and evaluated. 2. Compound Trigger Logic: - The outer compound trigger with 
within: 600
means that both the Reactive and Proactive triggers must be satisfied within 10 minutes. This is the window during which the entire set of conditions is evaluated. 3. Proactive Trigger: - The Proactive trigger checks for the absence of a specific event within 600 seconds (10 minutes). If the event occurs within this window, the Proactive trigger will not fire, preventing the compound trigger from executing. ### Implications: - Evaluation for Every Event: - If you want the automation to be evaluated for every 
xos.edo.event.received
event, ensure that the event feed consistently provides these events and that they match the conditions specified in your triggers. - Validity of 30-Second Window: - A 30-second 
within
window for the Reactive trigger is valid if you expect the event to be processed and evaluated quickly. This short window ensures that the trigger reacts promptly to the event. - Potential Timing Conflicts: - Ensure that the timing of events aligns with these windows. If events are delayed beyond the 30-second window, the Reactive trigger may not fire. ### Recommendations: - Monitor Event Timing: - Keep an eye on the timing of events in your feed to ensure they are processed within the expected windows. - Test Thoroughly: - Test the setup with real events to verify that the triggers behave as expected. Adjust the 
within
values if necessary based on observed behavior. This configuration should work, provided the event timing aligns with the specified windows. If issues persist, consider adjusting the 
within
values or reviewing event processing times.
a
@Marvin when you say "If events are delayed beyond the 30-second window, the Reactive trigger may not fire." - I'm not sure how that is valid. Events can arrive any second, and there could be multiple events arriving within a 30 second period. Id like the automation to evaluate whenever an event meeting the criteria (i.e. with the right value for 
eventSourceURN
) is observed in the event feed
m
If you want the automation to evaluate every time an event with the correct 
eventSourceURN
is observed in the event feed, regardless of when it arrives, the 
within
setting for the Reactive trigger should be reconsidered. Here's how you can achieve that: 1. Reactive Trigger `within`: - Set the 
within
value to a reasonably long duration that allows the system to capture and evaluate each event as it arrives. If you set it too short, you might miss events that arrive slightly outside the window. 2. Event-Based Evaluation: - Prefect should evaluate the Reactive trigger for each event as it arrives. The 
within
window should be long enough to ensure that transient delays in event processing do not prevent the trigger from firing. ### Configuration Suggestions: - Set a Longer `within`: - Consider setting the 
within
for the Reactive trigger to a longer period, such as 300 seconds (5 minutes), to ensure that each event is captured and evaluated. - Event Evaluation Logic: - The system should be configured to evaluate each event independently. If multiple events arrive in quick succession, each should be processed and evaluated separately. ### Example Adjustment:
Copy code
json
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],  // Consider using a unique identifier if needed
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 300  // Longer window to capture all events
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:edo-test-single-dependency"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "xos.edo.event.received"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
### Key Points: - Longer 
within
for Reactive Trigger: Ensures that events are not missed due to transient processing delays. - Event Feed Consistency: Ensure that the event feed is consistently delivering events with the correct 
eventSourceURN
. - Testing: Test the setup with real events to verify that the triggers are firing as expected. This setup should help ensure that each qualifying event is evaluated independently, allowing the automation to trigger as soon as the conditions are met.
a
@Marvin - for my Proactive trigger, I wonder if it would be better for it to check for the absence of a flow run from a particular deployment within a time period, rather than looking for the absence of a custom event (with a specific 
eventSourceURN
) to determine this? e.g. The equivalent Proactive trigger using flow-run events would be to look for the absence of any flow-run for the deployment (named 
xos-deployer-tests-ghec-edo-test-single-dependency-e2e
) over a period of 10 minutes. What would that look like?
m
To configure a Proactive trigger that checks for the absence of a flow run from a specific deployment over a period of 10 minutes, you can utilize Prefect's event system to monitor flow run events. Here's how you can set this up: ### Proactive Trigger Configuration 1. Event Type: You will focus on the 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
event or similar, depending on what exactly you want to monitor for absence. 2. Deployment Name: Use the deployment name to filter the events. 3. Proactive Trigger Logic: The trigger will fire if no flow run completion event is detected for the specified deployment within the given time window. ### Example Configuration Here's a JSON example for a Proactive trigger:
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "deploymentName": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec-edo-test-single-dependency-e2e"
  },
  "match_related": {},
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "prefect.flow-run.Completed"
  ],
  "for_each": [],  // Optional: Use if you want to evaluate separately per flow run
  "posture": "Proactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 600  // 10 minutes
}
### Explanation - 
match
Field: Filters events based on the deployment name. Ensure that the deployment name matches exactly how it appears in your Prefect setup. - 
expect
Field: Specifies the event type you are monitoring for absence. In this case, 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
is used to check for completed flow runs. - 
within
Field: Set to 600 seconds to check for absence within a 10-minute window. - `posture`: Set to "Proactive" to fire the trigger when the specified event is absent within the time window. ### Considerations - Event Consistency: Ensure that flow run events are consistently logged in your Prefect environment. - Testing: Test this setup with your deployment to verify that the trigger behaves as expected. This configuration should help you set up a Proactive trigger that monitors the absence of flow runs for a specific deployment over a specified time period.
a
@Marvin can I replace the Proactive trigger in my overall compound trigger / automation set up, with the one you have provided me, and expect a working result as per the logic that I am trying to achieve?
m
Yes, you can replace the Proactive trigger in your overall compound trigger setup with the one I've provided. This configuration should align with your logic to trigger the automation based on the absence of a flow run from a specific deployment within a specified time period. ### Updated Compound Trigger Configuration Here's how you can integrate the Proactive trigger into your existing compound trigger setup:
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json
{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 300  // Adjusted to a reasonable window
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {
        "deploymentName": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec-edo-test-single-dependency-e2e"
      },
      "match_related": {},
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "prefect.flow-run.Completed"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600  // 10 minutes
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
### Key Points - Reactive Trigger: Evaluates every 
xos.edo.event.received
event with the specified 
eventSourceURN
within a reasonable time window (e.g., 300 seconds). - Proactive Trigger: Checks for the absence of a completed flow run for the specified deployment within 10 minutes. - Overall Compound Logic: The automation will trigger when both conditions are satisfied within the outer 
within
window (600 seconds). ### Recommendations - Testing: Thoroughly test this setup with real events to ensure it behaves as expected. Adjust the 
within
values if necessary based on observed behavior. - Monitor Logs: Keep an eye on logs to verify that the triggers are evaluated correctly and the automation fires as intended. This configuration should provide a working solution based on the logic you want to achieve, ensuring that the automation triggers correctly under the specified conditions.
a
@Marvin deploymentName might not be a valid field as per your setup of the new Proactive trigger. Below is what an example of a flow-run completed event contains - we may need to use a field from there for matching:
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{
  "id": "9cadc12f-a08b-4e05-aee4-bd98dadce196",
  "account": "142296e9-5e4e-451f-a177-88be9fe99ed9",
  "event": "prefect.flow-run.Completed",
  "occurred": "2025-02-26T03:25:06.443Z",
  "payload": {
    "intended": {
      "from": "RUNNING",
      "to": "COMPLETED"
    },
    "initial_state": {
      "type": "RUNNING",
      "name": "Running"
    },
    "validated_state": {
      "type": "COMPLETED",
      "name": "Completed",
      "message": "All states completed."
    }
  },
  "received": "2025-02-26T03:25:07.097Z",
  "related": [
    ...flow...,
    {
      "prefect.resource.id": "prefect.deployment.4fc1b4a9-b10c-48e3-bd6d-a2676c5a6954",
      "prefect.resource.role": "deployment",
      "prefect.resource.name": "xos-xos-canary-job-main"
    },
    ...work queue...,
    {
    ...workpool...,
    ...tag...,
    ...creator...
  ],
  "resource": {
    ... flow run details ...
  },
  "workspace": "64079352-165f-4298-b188-008661bea9be"
}
One of the blocks under the 
related
block contains the deployment name. Some info replaced with ... to make this message concise i.e.
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{
      "prefect.resource.id": "...",
      "prefect.resource.role": "deployment",
      "prefect.resource.name": "xos-xos-canary-job-main"
    },
m
Your message was too long by 416 tokens...
To match the absence of flow runs for a specific deployment using the 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
event, you can use the 
prefect.resource.name
field from the 
related
block. This field contains the deployment name, which you can use to filter events. ### Updated Proactive Trigger Configuration Here's how you can configure the Proactive trigger using the deployment name from the 
related
block:
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {
    "prefect.resource.name": "xos-xos-canary-job-main"
  },
  "match_related": {
    "prefect.resource.role": "deployment"
  },
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "prefect.flow-run.Completed"
  ],
  "for_each": [],
  "posture": "Proactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 600  // 10 minutes
}
### Explanation - 
match
Field: Uses 
prefect.resource.name
to filter events by the deployment name. This ensures you're targeting the correct deployment. - 
match_related
Field: Specifies the related role as "deployment" to ensure you're matching the correct part of the event structure. - 
expect
Field: Looks for the 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
event to detect completed flow runs. - 
within
Field: Set to 600 seconds to check for absence within a 10-minute window. ### Integration into Compound Trigger You can replace the Proactive trigger in your compound trigger setup with the above configuration to achieve the desired logic. Ensure that the Reactive trigger and overall compound logic remain as previously configured to maintain the intended behavior. By using these fields, you should be able to correctly configure the Proactive trigger to monitor the absence of flow runs for the specified deployment.
a
@Marvin the deployment name is only available under the 
related
block, not in the parent 
resource
block (which only contains the flow-run name). So wouldn't that mean i should be adding the deployment name under the 
match_related
field of the trigger?
m
You're correct. Since the deployment name is located under the 
related
block, you should use the 
match_related
field to specify the deployment name. Here's how you can adjust the Proactive trigger configuration: ### Corrected Proactive Trigger Configuration
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json
{
  "type": "event",
  "match": {},
  "match_related": {
    "prefect.resource.role": "deployment",
    "prefect.resource.name": "xos-xos-canary-job-main"
  },
  "after": [],
  "expect": [
    "prefect.flow-run.Completed"
  ],
  "for_each": [],
  "posture": "Proactive",
  "threshold": 1,
  "within": 600  // 10 minutes
}
### Explanation - 
match
Field: Kept empty since the direct match is not required for the parent resource in this case. - 
match_related
Field: Specifies both the 
prefect.resource.role
as "deployment" and the 
prefect.resource.name
to filter events based on the deployment name. - 
expect
Field: Looks for the 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
event to detect completed flow runs. - 
within
Field: Set to 600 seconds to check for absence within a 10-minute window. ### Integration with Compound Trigger Replace the existing Proactive trigger in your compound trigger setup with this configuration. This should ensure the Proactive trigger evaluates the absence of flow runs for the specified deployment correctly. By using the 
match_related
field this way, you can accurately target and monitor the deployment you're interested in, ensuring the Proactive trigger behaves as expected.
a
@Marvin with this new Proactive trigger, do I need to be using the for_each field at all? Note that I tried your version and the automation / overall compound trigger does not trigger at all now
m
If your goal is to evaluate the absence of flow runs for a specific deployment over a certain period, using the 
for_each
field is typically not necessary unless you want to evaluate the condition separately for each unique identifier, such as a flow run ID or deployment instance. ### Considerations for `for_each`: 1. Use Case for `for_each`: - 
for_each
is useful when you want to ensure that each instance of an event or resource is evaluated independently. For example, if you want to track each flow run separately, you might use 
for_each
with a unique identifier. 2. Current Scenario: - Since you're checking for the absence of flow runs from a specific deployment, the primary focus is on whether any flow run completion events occur within the specified window, not on evaluating each instance separately. 3. Potential Impact: - Including 
for_each
without a clear need might complicate the evaluation logic and could be a reason for the automation not triggering as expected. ### Recommendations: - Remove `for_each`: Given your current requirements, you can remove the 
for_each
field from the Proactive trigger configuration. This should simplify the logic and focus on the absence condition for the entire deployment. - Testing and Logs: Ensure that the Prefect logs are checked for any errors or warnings that might indicate why the automation isn't triggering. This can provide insights into any misconfigurations or issues. - Review Event Timing and Conditions: Double-check the event feed and the timing of events to ensure they align with the 
within
parameters and the conditions specified in your triggers. By simplifying the configuration and focusing on the core logic, you should be able to achieve the desired behavior with your automation setup. If issues persist, reviewing logs and testing with different configurations can help identify the root cause.
a
@Marvin Im not using for_each - was just checking if I should, but based on your explanation I do not need to use it. Do you know why my automation might not be triggering at all now? Below is the current automation definition:
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{
  "type": "compound",
  "triggers": [
    {
      "type": "compound",
      "triggers": [
        {
          "type": "event",
          "match": {
            "eventSourceURN": "urn:xos:xosDeployerE2ETests123:sandbox:job:main-test"
          },
          "match_related": {},
          "after": [],
          "expect": [
            "xos.edo.event.received"
          ],
          "for_each": [],
          "posture": "Reactive",
          "threshold": 1,
          "within": 300
        }
      ],
      "require": "all",
      "within": 21600
    },
    {
      "type": "event",
      "match": {},
      "match_related": {
        "prefect.resource.name": "xos-deployer-tests-ghec-edo-test-single-dependency-e2e",
        "prefect.resource.role": "deployment"
      },
      "after": [],
      "expect": [
        "prefect.flow-run.Completed"
      ],
      "for_each": [],
      "posture": "Proactive",
      "threshold": 1,
      "within": 600
    }
  ],
  "require": "all",
  "within": 600
}
m
To troubleshoot why your automation might not be triggering, let's review the configuration and consider potential issues: 1. Reactive Trigger: - The Reactive trigger is set to evaluate the 
xos.edo.event.received
event within 300 seconds. Ensure that this event consistently appears in the event feed and matches the specified 
eventSourceURN
. 2. Proactive Trigger: - The Proactive trigger checks for the absence of 
prefect.flow-run.Completed
events related to the specified deployment within 600 seconds. - Ensure that the 
prefect.resource.name
and 
prefect.resource.role
in 
match_related
are correctly specified and match the event structure. 3. Overall Compound Logic: - The outer compound trigger requires both conditions to be satisfied within 600 seconds. Verify that the timing aligns with this window and that both triggers can be evaluated within this time frame. ### Potential Issues and Recommendations: - Event Feed Consistency: - Double-check that the events are appearing in the event feed with the correct attributes. If events are delayed or missing, it could affect trigger evaluation. - Logs and Errors: - Review Prefect logs for any errors or warnings related to trigger evaluation or automation execution. Logs might provide insights into misconfigurations or system issues. - Testing with Simplified Setup: - Temporarily simplify the setup by testing each trigger independently. For example, test the Reactive trigger alone to see if it fires correctly, then add the Proactive trigger. - Review Event Structure: - Ensure that the event structure in your system matches the configuration. Any discrepancies in fields or values could prevent triggers from firing. - Correct Role and Name Matching: - Verify that the 
prefect.resource.name
and 
prefect.resource.role
in the 
match_related
field are correctly specified. These should exactly match the event details. If the issue persists after these checks, consider reaching out to Prefect support with detailed logs and configuration for further analysis.
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